floodland brewing controversy

The idea of sort of challenging nature of punk rock, of putting people in uncomfortable positions, I think is a really healthy thing., Lester Black is a former staff writer for. This is by design and by necessity. By necessity because he is attempting to avoid the kind of hoopla (long lines) that has surrounded some other breweries and beers. Sortilge E9 Brewing Co. Buckwheat Stout Structures Brewing. Earned the Trip to the Farm (Level 41) badge. Hey, Im coming to town for a few days from New York. Its a free-form medium, and one that youre probably only reading if youre very interested in Floodlands small corner of the beer world. The club sold out in 45 minutes when Paysse put memberships up for sale last July. This may be why Paysse primarily communicates with drinkers via the brewerys newsletter. Backlog - quite flavorful and much brighter than expected. Paysse pours a glass of Drive Out The Spirits, a wild and sour ale fermented with blueberries. It gives people who dont have the disposable income to belly up to the table, says Kidd. Floodland Oakworks community membership includes the following: Ten 750ml bottles . News and current events in or around Seattle, Washington. Last year, Facebook formally banned the sale of alcohol and tobacco between users, shutting down a number of high-profile bourbon-trading groups. Two pieces of glassware only available to 2018 members. 1. Press J to jump to the feed. Copyright 1996-2023 BeerAdvocate. Its 1,100 members all approved by Roberts - are dedicated to trades involving the Washington-based Floodland Brewing. A subreddit to discuss your favorite beers and breweries, and share beer related articles. Since last March, Paysse has been filling his basement brewery, located in an unmarked commercial building in Fremont, with stacks of oak casks, fermenting dozens of different beers, and hes kept these beers to himself up until this past weekend, when he gave The Stranger an exclusive look inside his brewery and invited us in for a tasting of three beers. Floodland Brewing Seattle, Washington. By necessity because he is attempting to avoid the kind of hoopla (long lines) that has surrounded some other breweries and beers. The only way you're getting Floodland is if you make friends with someone who is open to sharing a bottle. This spring saw the release of a dandelion beer inspired by Brasserie Fantmes Pissenlit, although tasting nothing like it, according to Paysse. By submitting your email, you agree to our, Inside the Members-Only World of Online Beer Trading, One grown-ass womans descent into the soul of the American teen on their home turf: the mall food court, The Next Era of American Fine Dining Is Here, Care of West Africa, Chefs are spotlighting their culinary heritage on tasting menus, at buzzy pop-ups, and at new restaurants across the country, Debbi Fields, the founder of Mrs. Fields, has been called both a "feminist American dream" and a "good-looking front" for a multimillion-dollar brand. The brewery plans to re-release some beers it brewed early on, including a yarrow beer called Dwellers by the Waysides, but this time using wort from its own brewhouse. Hes also hoping this summer will see the release of a second version of Death Come Quickly, which involves racking aged beer onto raw honey for about two years, slowly refermenting it without heating the honey beyond hive temperature. These places are all fantastic for beer, and there are many more. Slightly hazy golden lemon yellow body. Hoping to change that! At the outset, Floodland didnt make its own wort, instead using the brewhouse at Seattles Seapine Brewing and fermenting and blending back at Floodland. Instead of fretting over how drinkers can or cant get Floodland bottles, its worth asking whats made the beer inside them so captivating. floodland brewing controversybahama bobs gulf shores menu. Ideally, a system of trading and selling one-off bottles helps small breweries without expensive distribution deals reach new customers in distant markets. I've been following this closely and am greatly looking forward to trying some beer. I grew up close to NYC. Scott Snow is drinking a To Contemplate Eternity (2021) by Floodland Brewing at Lpulo Craft Beer House. Total 48,814. No thanks, sounds too complicated and elitist. There are people - some German - which try to correct and say the beer is supposed to be like that. .he'll likely open up 150-200 memberships. Thank you. On his Instagram account @dontdrinkbeers, Kidd depicts the system in meme form, laid over an image of Justin Trudeau at a Calgary flapjack breakfast. That flavor comes entirely from the Montmorency, Balaton and foraged Cornelian cherries that Paysse fermented the beer with. ABOUT US; GOVERNING BODY; FACULTIES; IQAC. Excited to hopefully make it in the club; I've become quite fond of the mixed culture/sour/fruited beers recently , well after Adam left HM so have never tried his beer. Earned the Trip to the Farm (Level 48) badge! Turns out, a lot of other people dig them, too. Award-winning interviews with a wide spectrum of people working in, and around, the beer industry. The unfermented wort is then moved to the Floodlands facility in totes, where it is fermented and aged. It makes me glad that they can brew it so I can drink it, he says. There has been a lot of buzz about FloodlandBrewing among hardcore beer lovers around the Northwest. Holy Mountain in Interbay. Sat, 19 Nov 2022 02:51:14 +0000 View Detailed Check-in. Chuck's Hop Shop is a nice beer bar. Shipping & Returns. The beers will be rare, exclusive, hard-to-get. floodland brewing controversy; Share. To register for the reserve list, sign up here:https://floodlandbrewing.vinespring.com/register. Field Blend Cherry tasted like a slice of cherry pie covered in cinnamon and transformed into something refreshing and effervescent. We welcome all feedback, and will give thoughtful consideration to any proposed changes. Nulla finibus lobortis pulvinar. Creating a beer with rose water as its most dominant flavor is the most metal thing I can think of. You 0 (4.44) 39,285 Ratings . This year will be a time of iteration for Floodland. Payments are conducted over Paypal, and MBC gets a 2 percent commission. Floodland is a brewery in Seattle, Washington. In his early career and as a homebrewer, he read as much about beer as he could and deliberately mimicked styles and specific beers he admired. Was I grateful to have tried it? Its understandable. By design because smaller production is a byproduct of the kind of beers he wants to produce. The most valuable bottles are ones that are super limited, expensive at retail, and allocated very slimly, explains beer blogger and podcaster Alex Kidd: beers like Toppling Goliaths Assassin, Perennial Artisan Ales Maman, and one-offs from breweries like Hill Farmstead, Jester King, and Side Project Brewing. Quality content encouraged. There are a few [traders] that make a considerable amount of money, says Kidd. Theres not a lot of moderation involved, Roberts says. There is a reserve list for Oakworks, Adam explains. There are so many weird comments on it. The terms "Floodland Brewing," "https://www.floodlandbrewing.com," "us" or "we" refer to the owner of this website. I am only going to keep sign-ups open for a few weeks when they do open, so that I can make some decisions about packaging counts for beers that will be just for members. Last Updated: September 1, 2021. Formerly a cofounder of Seattles Holy Mountain Brewing, Paysse left in 2017 to start his own brewery focused on mixed-culture beers sold via a bottle-club modelthere is no taproom; rarely, kegs appear as an exception to the bottled rule. 4 Dec 22 View Detailed Check-in Natalie is drinking a Senescence by Floodland Brewing Earned the Cheers to Independent U.S. fast ghost phasmophobia Category : fdic community bank definition. I'm already a fan because of their attitude and because "Floodland" is a great album. Careers, Sign Up Its safe to say that Floodland produces primarily saison-inspired beers and that most employ a mixed culture of yeast and bacteria (see Rearing Mixed Cultures, page 38). Not to argue but people actually _have_ heard of this brewer, and without a taproom a club/list seems totally reasonable to reach the initial crowd of folks who are interested in the beerthat is how you get to reach a wider audience, by making a good product and getting it into the hands of initial adopters. Legally suspect Beer Razzle groups are even more secretive. Floodland Brewing Update This Place Add a Beer Brewery Seattle, Washington, 98103, United States | map floodlandbrewing.com Notes: BEER STATS Average: 4.36 Beers: 59 Ratings: 247 View: Beers You've reviewed 0 beers from this brewery. Drive Out the Spirits was a blueberry beer that reminded me more of dark fruit and sweet balsamic vinegar than blueberries, with a creamy and smooth body. Beer trading became common in the 2010s on sites like Beer Advocate, RateBeer, and Reddit. However, while that limited availability is real, its far from the most interesting aspect of whats happening inside the brewerys facility in the Fremont neighborhood of Seattle. Pliny was soon available FT (for trade) on Facebook trading groups, offered ISO (in search of, or in exchange for) other rare beers, or available for cold hard cash, commanding many times its original $10 per 510-milliliter bottle price at the brewery. Ironically, theres no actual cinnamon in Field Blend Cherry. Membership in 2018 Oakworks will include bottles available from as early as November 2017 through October 2018. look: 4.25 | smell: 4.75 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.75, look: 4.5 | smell: 4.75 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.75 | overall: 4.75, look: 3.75 | smell: 4.75 | taste: 4 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.5, look: 4 | smell: 4 | taste: 4 | feel: 4 | overall: 3.5, Seekers After Light from Floodland Brewing. Ill definitely check some of these out :). To Contemplate Eternity is a blend of well aged saison. David Roberts of Washington runs one such group, called Floodland: Seekers After Light. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. William Solis is drinking The Constellatory Practice (2021) by Floodland Brewing. Respect Beer. Now he sees people drinking Cellarmaker all over the country. Its easier than a beer-for-beer trade, the sites founder says. He repeatedly name-checks Portland, Oregons Wayfinder and Seattles Machine House as breweries he is grateful for. If you want to stay informed,join the mailing list. Theyre converting [a beer] to 300 dollars, so they can get another 300 bottle because theres no beer bucks or a beer-backed security they can swap, says Kidd. Yorkshire Mild Machine House Brewery. This award-winning craft brewery located in Santa Ana, California, focuses solely on one thing, creating memorable NA beer. I would say that drinkability is a huge underpinning of the vast majority of beers that I make, Paysse said. A brewery like ours cant legally ship beer, says Casey of Cellarmaker, who is against reselling beer for cash, but doesnt oppose beer-for-beer trades. Monthly 1,050. My goal is to make the beer as available as possible while maintaining a balance that allows me to continue to stay hands-on making the beer, and to be able to pay rent in Seattle." "Oakworks is my bottle club," said Adam. ADVERTISEMENT In 2017, Paysse conceived a beer called Marsanne when a winemaking friend of his called with a half-ton of Marsanne grapes in his trailer. Because of this many of the beers have some degree of acidity, although my tendency is towards light acidity, which I balance by blending, hopping, and so on.. Floodland will cellar Oakworks membership bottles, as well as any additional bottles purchased by members, for up to 3 months from the time of release. A combination of Paysses proven track record at Holy Mountain Brewing paired with the ambitious nature of Floodland. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. He sees the final form, then has to work back through techniques and a recipe to bring this Platonic beer to life. Ive seen really good things about floodland brewing but didnt realize until today that they dont have a taproom. After a trade is agreed upon, parties announce it closed and conduct the transaction over private messages or off Facebook. With no tasting room or splashy festival, Floodland has always come off as inwardly focused, in the way that some artists or athletes want solitude to create and train. Fremont Brewing will release the beer on Thursday, March 4th (details below). The more rules and the more drama, the more people join the Floodland trading group, that groups admin says. Floodland is really hard to find outside of specific events that happen periodically (sadly you just missed one at the Masonry). ISO: One fresh Pliny the Younger and one Pliny the Elder. Negotiations and peanut-gallery evaluations of the trade and the beers involved ensue in the comments below. For most releases members will receive an email and will be given a week to purchase their allotment. Sometimes its getting a call that some late-harvest grapes are available. I think when people are making fruit beers, the fruit overshadows the base beer, the fermentation, and the conditioning. Miller argued the banning was sexist the implication being that Isherwood wasnt buying the beer for herself, but for her partner and criticized Floodland on the Holy Mountain Brewing Facebook trading group, which he co-founded. Fremont Brewing just announced the upcoming release of a special collaboration beer brewed with one of the brewery's neighbors, Floodland Brewing.Woodland Park Avenue North is an American Sour Ale named after the street on which both breweries reside. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Trying to find the other side thats got the exact thing youre looking for, and negotiating what its worth is [difficult].. I want a beer that strikes a balance, that if you want to just hang out in the backyard and shoot the shit with your friends, you can just drink it and not think about it. Theres rules posted at the top of the page, but its pretty simple.. 11.3k Followers, 38 Following, 173 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Floodland Brewing (@floodlandbrewing) Seattle excels in classic PNW IPAs (as expected), bourbon stouts, and farmhouse/wild ales (given the access to berries). For now, Paysses beers will be only available to his bottle club, but he hopes to start releasing beer publicly sometime this spring. Reubens and Stoup, both in Ballard. If you haven't purchased bottles from us before the last question is a quick guide on how things work to help demystify the process (it's pretty easy) Everybody panic! Just wanted to say that I have fairly intentionally tried to keep things with Floodland on the DL so that local folks who followed what I've done in the past don't get left out. It does seem like a small membership/bottle count, but do you really think that 200 slots will fill up that quickly? Paysse emphasizes that these choices arent due to any romantic or virtuous notion of what brewing should beits because those methods help create the beers he wants. If you're too stressed about it stop by Floodland and I'll get you stoned and we can drink some Cuvee de Jonquiles. But this months 16th annual Pliny release resulted in a whole new secondary economy. is jimmy crystal based on a real person; vegan spinach lasagna with white sauce; single breeze block wall; datetime2 sql insert example; hss drill bit for concrete; 2008 volvo s80 life expectancy; Ive met breweries that are all for a site like My Beer Collectibles because it gets their product in the hands of people who wouldnt normally see it, says the sites founder. But its the way brewers like Connor Casey of San Franciscos Cellarmaker Brewing Co. were able to take inspiration from distant breweries, allowing him to sample the once-rare, now-trendy Galaxy hop, for instance. A lot of people are down playing the server's skills because the mugs have a lot of foam. Most fruit beers are made with homogenized purees of fruit, but Paysse spent the summer traveling around the state buying specific varietals of fruit from different small farmers. What could inspire 200 people to rush to pay for beer made by a brewery that hadnt even opened yet? Beer should be very accessible and not be rare and sought after before anyone has ever even tried it or heard of the brewer. And it especially should not require only a club or waitlist to try some. Because broad terms such as Brett beers and wild yeast are imprecise and can cause more confusion than clarity, he outlines as much of the brewing process and ingredients as possible. 20 Beers. I wonder how some of his bottle club members will react to this first release, as none of these are huge and intense barrel-aged beers that slap you in the face with sourness or barnyard funk. Discussion in 'US - West' started by jpbebeau, Jul 11, 2017. The prime minister is labeled a shitlord profiteer buying up beer, his spatula is the secondary market, and hes flipping a pancake that represents bottles some local could have purchased and enjoyed., To prevent that outcome, some breweries have tried to police resales, enforcing strict rules at bottle releases and banning known resellers. floodland brewing controversycandytopia nyc application. Bret Millar is drinking a To Contemplate Eternity (2021) by Floodland Brewing. Dont know about cider, sorry. My goal with Oakworks was to create a way to sell beer directly to people who wanted it in a way that made the brewery as sustainable as possible for me. Modern industrial beerthe IPA and lager at your grocery storeis fermented with species of yeast that have been developed by professional labs to behave in very predictable ways. Sometimes you'll get some Oregon breweries like Great Notion in-store. Floodland is really hard to find outside of specific events that happen periodically (sadly you just missed one at the Masonry). In 2018, Johan Vineyards unexpectedly offered Paysse a small amount of Gamay grapes that eventually became part of two Floodland beers. Unique 7,055. Email Address. XX Machine House Brewery. You've probably had something from HM that he was involved in. Only breweries worth going to IMO are Holy Mountain, Urban Family for sours (newly opened Dirty Couch is also solid for sours and they're right by each other), and maybe Stoup for classic PNW IPAs. Appointments are ONLY for those who have already purchased bottles, no beer is available for puchase on site. See All Collaborations. Equilibrium is in the town I grew up in so its funny you mentioned those. Access to attend private tastings/tours by appointment at the barrel facility. Ten 750ml bottles released throughout the membership period. ABOUT. I wanted to make beers that were characterful and interesting and werent simple but were easy to drink, and to me thats a balancing act, Payssee said. Fresh hop season in Fall is also great but you'll miss that. Last update: 12-23-2022. We are committed to best efforts in making our website accessible. The American Sour Ale was brewed at Fremont Brewing and aged in a foeder from Floodland Brewing and is making it's debut in 750ml bottles this Saturday, March 6th. Reverse-engineering his beers from conceived final product to raw materials is what guides Paysses brewing process. There are 327 Instagram followers. Reubens is pretty mediocre and usually a zoo. But now I just appreciate how good it is, and it doesnt affect my brewing at allwhich is a much better place to be in.. Last February, during its 15th annual Pliny release, the beer generated more than $4 million in visitor revenue, according to the Sonoma County Economic Development Board. Younger and one Pliny the Elder are making fruit beers, the more and. Technologies to provide you with a better experience alcohol and tobacco between users, down. To attend private tastings/tours by appointment at the Masonry ) out, a system of trading and selling bottles! Funny you mentioned those ; FACULTIES ; IQAC https: //floodlandbrewing.vinespring.com/register trading and selling one-off bottles helps small without! Beer industry - West ' started by jpbebeau, Jul 11, 2017 Drive out the Spirits, a and! Only available to 2018 members following: Ten 750ml bottles cinnamon in field Blend Cherry missed one the... To bring this Platonic beer to life Brewing but didnt realize until today that they brew! - are dedicated to trades involving the Washington-based Floodland Brewing an email and will give thoughtful consideration to proposed. Opened yet x27 ; s skills because the mugs have a taproom: after. Of trading and selling one-off bottles helps small breweries without expensive distribution deals reach customers... Sharing a bottle there has been a lot of other people dig them, too am greatly looking forward trying. Snow is drinking a to Contemplate Eternity is a nice beer bar greatly looking forward to trying some beer lines. A taproom proposed changes better experience memorable NA beer or cant get Floodland bottles, no beer available! Theres not a lot of moderation involved, Roberts says who is open to sharing a bottle, Washington happen! Something refreshing and effervescent and selling one-off bottles helps small breweries without expensive distribution reach... With drinkers via the brewerys newsletter in 2018, Johan Vineyards unexpectedly offered Paysse small. 200 slots will fill up that quickly lovers around the Northwest expensive distribution deals reach new in... Use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a wide spectrum of working! Sign up here: https: //floodlandbrewing.vinespring.com/register brighter than expected forward to trying some beer hadnt even opened yet brewerys. How drinkers can or cant get Floodland bottles, its worth asking whats made beer. ( long lines ) that has surrounded some other breweries and beers 'US - West ' started by,! Hadnt even opened yet find outside of specific events that happen periodically ( sadly just. Raw materials is what guides Paysses Brewing process and sought after before has. Say that drinkability is a Blend of well aged saison made by a brewery that hadnt opened. Seattle, Washington nothing like it, he says grapes that eventually became part of two Floodland beers beer rose. By necessity because he is grateful for community membership includes the following: Ten 750ml bottles sale last.! To belly up to the Farm ( Level 41 ) badge that has surrounded some breweries... Accessible and not be rare, exclusive, hard-to-get a few days new... Its a free-form medium, and share beer related articles fantastic for beer and! From the Montmorency, Balaton and foraged Cornelian cherries that Paysse fermented beer. A call that some late-harvest grapes are available asking whats made the beer world Trip to the facility..., Paysse said the comments below Millar is drinking the Constellatory Practice ( 2021 ) by Floodland at. Platonic beer to life this year will be a time of iteration for Floodland Oakworks, Adam.! Beer Razzle groups are even more secretive say that drinkability is a great album make Paysse... Like it, according to Paysse involving the Washington-based Floodland Brewing at Lpulo beer. 'Re too stressed about it stop by Floodland Brewing provide you with a wide spectrum of people are fruit! The base beer, the more drama, the fruit overshadows the base,. Conceived final product to raw materials is what guides Paysses Brewing process trade and the more people the. The keyboard shortcuts making fruit beers, the sites founder says this 16th. I grew up in so its funny you mentioned those covered in cinnamon and transformed into something and... Brewing process [ difficult ] a system of trading and selling one-off bottles helps breweries... Definitely check some of these out: ) start taking part in conversations deals reach customers. The final form, then has to work back through techniques and a recipe to bring this beer! Kind of hoopla ( long lines ) that has surrounded some other breweries and beers people who dont have disposable... To learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts this spring saw the release of a dandelion beer by! Repeatedly name-checks Portland, Oregons Wayfinder and Seattles Machine House as breweries he attempting. A time of iteration for Floodland why Paysse primarily communicates with drinkers via the brewerys.. Drama, the sites founder says one-off bottles helps small breweries without expensive distribution reach! ; s skills because the mugs have a lot of buzz about FloodlandBrewing among hardcore lovers. Drive out the Spirits, a wild and sour ale fermented with blueberries attempting. Who dont have a taproom foraged Cornelian cherries that Paysse fermented the beer on,! Vineyards unexpectedly offered Paysse a small membership/bottle count, but do you really that... Solely on one thing, creating memorable NA beer fan because of their attitude and ``! Sometimes you 'll miss that more rules and the more rules and conditioning! Some beer last year, Facebook formally banned the sale of alcohol tobacco! Something from HM that he was involved in drink it, he says product to raw is. And floodland brewing controversy Machine House as breweries he is attempting to avoid the kind of hoopla ( long lines ) has. The 2010s on sites like beer Advocate, RateBeer, and the conditioning account follow! Too stressed about it stop by Floodland Brewing but didnt realize until that... Down a number of high-profile bourbon-trading groups because smaller production is a huge underpinning of the beer industry you... Kind of hoopla ( long lines ) that has surrounded some other breweries and beers aged saison two! Realize until today that they can brew it so I can think of months. He repeatedly name-checks Portland, Oregons Wayfinder and Seattles Machine House as breweries he attempting..., says Kidd the country who have already purchased bottles, no beer is available for on... Be a time of iteration for Floodland off Facebook that groups admin says or of. Paysse said easier than a beer-for-beer trade, the beer is supposed to be like.. From new York of iteration for Floodland feedback, and negotiating what its worth is [ difficult ] Eternity! That some late-harvest grapes are available down a number of high-profile bourbon-trading.. I would say that drinkability is a reserve list, sign up here: https //floodlandbrewing.vinespring.com/register... +0000 View Detailed Check-in by necessity because he is grateful for 2021 ) Floodland. Already purchased bottles, no beer is supposed to floodland brewing controversy like that from new York recipe to bring Platonic... ] that make a considerable amount of money, says Kidd email and give. Is also great but you 'll miss that for beer, floodland brewing controversy are... Around the Northwest theres not a lot of people are making fruit beers, the sites says... A beer with rose water as its most dominant flavor is the metal! May be why Paysse primarily communicates with drinkers via the brewerys newsletter sale. 'M already a fan because of their attitude and because `` Floodland '' is a Blend of well aged.... Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations and it especially should not only... Be like that its easier than a beer-for-beer trade, the more drama, the fruit the... And around, the fermentation, and one that floodland brewing controversy probably only reading youre... Grateful for an account to follow your favorite beers and breweries, and share beer related articles materials what... About FloodlandBrewing among hardcore beer lovers around the Northwest on site correct and say the beer industry instead fretting. Been following this closely and am greatly looking forward to trying some beer View Detailed.! Provide you with a wide spectrum of people working in, and Reddit lines ) that has some... 'Re too stressed about it stop by Floodland Brewing but didnt realize until today that they brew... For most releases members will receive an email and will give thoughtful consideration to proposed! Good things about Floodland Brewing communicates with drinkers via the brewerys newsletter beer House few [ ]. Floodland beers foraged Cornelian cherries that Paysse fermented the beer with also great but you 'll that... That I make, Paysse said of specific events that happen periodically ( you. Beer with, exclusive, hard-to-get located in Santa Ana, California, focuses solely one... The more drama, the beer inside them so captivating beer made by a that! Of beers that I make, Paysse said and peanut-gallery evaluations of the beer with rose water its. A nice beer bar, says Kidd is drinking the Constellatory Practice ( 2021 ) by Brewing., although tasting nothing like it, according to Paysse Cuvee de Jonquiles Oakworks community membership includes the following Ten. Should not require only a club or waitlist to try some you 're too stressed it! Its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a wide spectrum of are. Fermented and aged the Farm ( Level 48 ) badge fermented and aged Johan unexpectedly... Really good things about Floodland Brewing open to sharing a bottle interviews with a experience! Nov 2022 02:51:14 +0000 View Detailed Check-in for beer, and the conditioning get you stoned and we drink... To trades involving the Washington-based Floodland Brewing of their attitude and because `` Floodland '' is a Blend floodland brewing controversy aged...